General Inside casino information

cyph

Trusted Member
I'm hoping this site will be what I'm looking for. Let's start with some insider information from casinos.

INDUSTRY LINE OF DEFENSE

As we near the end of our study, we've covered an enormous variety of scams and strategies. It’s rime to look at the many elements that comprise the detection process, but, first, lets overview the industry’s line of defense.

Dealers

I The dealer can be considered our first line of defense. Whereas a boss is responsible for many games, the dealer is a dedicated observer, only responsible for his game and the players on his game. Although very few understand the mechanics of scamming, card counting, or advantage play in a meaningful way, they can occasionally spot an unusual or suspicious action, then pass the information along to I their supervisors. As a general rule, they do not contribute significandy to the detection of cheaters and skilled playera but they can initiate the process.

It’s the consensus of many veteran gamers that the art of dealing has become a dying art. There was a time when the professional 'clerk' (a topnotch dealer) was respected, sought after, and was always guaranteed a job. Not any more. Most clubslshy away from experienced help; \

Horseshoe used to be an exception, as there were always jobs for the best dealers. It's a sad truth but today, when it comes to the dealer, mediocrity is the norm, and there are many reasons for this decline.

When the gaming business exploded throughout the country, the demand for dealers was huge, and inevitably, dealers were mass-produced, creating a weak and inexperienced work force. Conditions worsened when inexperienced dealers were quickly promoted to the floor, as the demand for floor supervisors was huge, too. This series of events resulted in one soft spot after another for the skilled cheater or player, as they often targetted the weaker help. Las Vegas may have had an advantage in this regard because, with its break-in houses, dealers had places to learn their craft before dealing in the better clubs with bigger limits. Some jurisdictions, however, are not set up this way. Cheaters and players are also known to target the experienced help. Talk with the professional advantage player, for example, and you will find that the veteran dealer is exploited just as much as the less experienced help; in fact, the veteran dealer is often targetted because of his experience. His loopholes and habits are more ingrained, they are more reliable, more predictable.

Once dealers have been in the business for a few years, they reach a point where they think that they have mastered their trade, and as they say,Tt can be tough to teach an old dog new tricks." Dealers are not subject to technical reviews once they advance past the break-in period, and just because a dealer has been dealing for ten years doesn’t mean that he’s immune from improvement. I’ve personally talked with many seasoned floor supervisors who have, at times, made a genuine effort to step in and critique a dealer's skills, only to have the dealer respond with, "I've been doing this a long rime,” implying that he didn’t need the help. More than one dealer has interpreted conawctive criticism as akin to harassment. And, it’s well known that in some clubs, bosses are patendy inaructed to leave the dealers alone. When a boss can’t demand that the dealer adhere to certain fundaBentals anH expect full support from his superiors, why would any boss make the effort to help?

Incentive is another issue contributing to weaker help. If a blackjack dealer makes the same money whether he learns to deal roulette or not, where’s the incentive? If a blackjack dealer makes the same money whether he learns to deal the pitch game or not, where’s the incentive? In many 'dubs, mediocrity is tolerated, and outside of self-pride and self-respect, there are no incentives foSlealers to exceL The irony is that, today, the dealer’s job is more secure than ever, and it’s hard to get fired, due in a large part to Human Resources.

So, when one considers the relative inexperience of our work force, lackjof technical review, a and lack of incentive, it should come as no surprise that cheaters will always have soft spots to play and advantage players will always have loopholes to exploit.

If you want your dealers to stand out, they must have a clear understanding of what is expected of them. The only way to accomplish these goals is with some form of an ongoing evaluation or review program. When the dealers are periodically reviewed for how they shuffleffliow they present
 

cyph

Trusted Member
I worked in casinos before playing for the other team. I was an a $90,000 wage before tax. I switched when I came to see what players were doing could do much better. There is an ongoing underground war between casinos and advantage players.

Its not the casino staff lack of knowledge that makes professional play possible. Its the casino surveillance dont do their job properly.

I have loads of information as a casino insider. I worked with Griffin Investigations a lot. Do you know how easy it is for a casino to get private information including photos of you, just by asking the government? You dont need to have done anything wrong and they can find out loads about you.
 

cyph

Trusted Member
I'll publish more of the inside information from casinos later. There are lots of training manuals. Some I cant share because it is exclusive to particular casinos and would pinpoint who I am. Some things I still need to keep private but at least it will help players here know some of the inside story.
 

Really

Member
You worked as a dealer, but you also worked with Griffin?

I know several dealers, but none of them ever had access with Griffin or surveillance. It wasn't possible to move from surveillance to dealing or vise versa.
 

cyph

Trusted Member
I didnt say I was a dealer. And I don't mean I worked in Griffin, I had access to the database online and dealt with their staff.
 

Really

Member
Who did you work for?

Red Hat?
Griffin?
Casino Surveillance?

Are you able to specify a casino by chance?
 

cyph

Trusted Member
I never worked for Griffin. I was in surveillance a few years.

Im going to publish some of the texts we used in training. It would cause a problem if I named casinos.
 

Mr Falcon

Member
cyph said:
I never worked for Griffin. I was in surveillance a few years.

Im going to publish some of the texts we used in training. It would cause a problem if I named casinos.

You could also be a mole. Nothing personal.
 

cyph

Trusted Member
So could you. I guess time will tell. It's good to be paranoid in this business.

Are you a player falcon? What are you looking for here?
 

Mr Falcon

Member
cyph said:
So could you. I guess time will tell. It's good to be paranoid in this business.

Are you a player falcon? What are you looking for here?

I can vouch that I am not.

Well, even if you've switched teams what would stop from using your experience/knowledge to potentially rail against partners/ships that may turn sour. Just a hypothetical. You understand.
 

cyph

Trusted Member
Theoretically nothing could stop me. Of course you knew the answer. We all did.

I'll go into any relationship feet first. I'm sure others would be the same.

Let's see where this forum leads. I'm putting together information and will post it soon. In the meantime, I'll continue the private message discussions.
 

Mr Falcon

Member
Cypher, aside from the 10k threshold reporting and SARS, are there any internal threshold (winnings) that would warrant an ID by the casinos that you've been affiliated with? As long as your not structuring of course.
 

cyph

Trusted Member
At my casino it was pretty standard. But there are some casinos that have a 1,000 Euro threshold. If the winner is a citizen, then need to pay tax on the winnings too.

There are a lot of differences between casinos although it is easy to sidestep, once you know the limits.
 

Really

Member
Cyph,

Some of your comments don't exactly fit, considering you were in "surveillance."

Your comments on roulette for example.
It's not a gray area in the US. Not even slightly gray. It's a felony. If you were versed on game protection then you would have likely cited code.

There are some other comments that don't quite fit as well.
 

Mr Falcon

Member
Really said:
Cyph,

Some of your comments don't exactly fit, considering you were in "surveillance."

Your comments on roulette for example.
It's not a gray area in the US. Not even slightly gray. It's a felony. If you were verse on game protection the you would like have cited code.

He's from the EU
 

Really

Member
If he's from the EU, then it makes more sense.

Regarding the entire computer approach. It's not the best approach. When you can really play visual ballistics, using a roulette computer is cumbersome. It's a dinosaur. It's like being a vocalist, but having to rely on auto tune because you can't sing on pitch. Some roulette computer work, but the edge is much lower.
 

cyph

Trusted Member
I only worked in a EU casino.

Really, what games do you play? Really as in I'm addressing you, not as in really really. It's a bad forum name to use.
 

steve

Active Member
Really said:
Regarding the entire computer approach. It's not the best approach. When you can really play visual ballistics, using a roulette computer is cumbersome. It's a dinosaur. It's like being a vocalist, but having to rely on auto tune because you can't sing on pitch. Some roulette computer work, but the edge is much lower.

This again?

With bias analysis, can you look at a wheel with a familiar design and say "yep we can beat that with about a 20% edge" without even bothering to check for dominant diamonds? No way. But easily I can do this with computers.

We can beat almost every wheel. The edge can be anywhere from 10% to 130%. Usually around 30% for something like a cammegh classic. Im saying it. We dont even bother assessing wheels anymore. We proceed with the assumption we'll beat them.

With bias analysis, assuming you use visual confirmation, you will take at least a few hundred spins to have any meaningful data. And still theres just a slim chance a bias will be worthwhile.

Bias vs computers. It is not even a close comparison. You could put glue in a pocket so theres no bounce, then play the bias and STILL a well made computer will have a much higher edge.

You have sound knowledge in roulette, but in this case you are so incredibly far off the mark.

Like I said, if you have a serious network of players and want to see, Ill show you all. You wont look at bias analysis again.

If you are talking about vb, no vb player is capable of 1ms timing accuracy, or any level required to assess often important factors such as diamond hits and scatter reduction. There are some wheels and conditions where vb will have comparable accuracy to computers. This isnt the case with typical modern wheels in good condition.
 
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